In this episode we welcome back our very first guest, Rodrigo Gudiño. Jake and Rodrigo begin this conversation with a reflection on Turtles All The Way Down, why Jake started the podcast and how he feels about where it’s going. The conversation continues into explorations on various subjects from the nature of experience to virtual reality, paranormal activity and tarot cards. The underlying theme throughout this conversation circles around the deeper mystery of existence and the conundrum of the unknown. While peeling back the layers the two touch on morality, death, truth and consciousness. They postulate on integration and holistic approaches to living. They discuss how more integrated realities could potentially lead to more fulfilling experiences. While the intellect is an important part of navigating and understanding the world, there is something to be said for the visceral experience, the intuitive, emotional and non-thinking elements of everyday life.